4. Between life and death
Dragoș: What are you afraid of?
Genesis: Now? Nothing. I used to be frightened of death, for a while. That was a long time ago…
Dragoș: And now?
Genesis: Now, I’m looking forward to being with Jaye again. Now I know there’s more…
Dragoș: Do you see life as a phase?
Genesis: Yeah. Myself and Jaye say it’s life loops. That is as it if we really felt like we had been before, and that we are here again because we hadn’t figured things out. There were certain things we fucked up. And the whole point is to find the figured stuff out. Jaye was the most fearless person we ever met. Nothing to be afraid of. She inspired me to think very differently about everything. We had a deal; that whenever one of us died or dropped our body, that we would see if it’s possible to communicate from beyond. Mainly because we spent a lot of time with Tibetan Buddhists and we were convinced some of us do reincarnate, and if they do, that means it is possible to maintain a sense of self without a body, that your consciousness can retain its sense of being someone. It’s not easy, obviously. But it can. And so, we said how could we try and communicate, and know it was real? You can’t say, ‘I think I’ve heard someone talking to me’ or ‘I Think I saw Jaye in the crowd’. What could we have? So we came up with three conditions: it has to be something that happens physically; there have to be witnesses (so you can’t just go like ‘I saw this’ or ‘I heard’, you know?); and it must have special meaning to you. Both. That’s what we came up with.
Three days after her body was buried, we were all seating in a room at my apartment; Jaye’s apartment as well. Alice was there; Edley was there, my two daughters. There were seven people. And my daughters were saying ‘you should come back to California with us, papa. We’re worried about you. We’re worry you’re gonna’ kill yourself.’ So we were thinking about it, and suddenly, from nowhere, we thought ‘if we go to California, we need a photograph of me and Jaye, together, to take’. So we wandered of to the bedroom, and on Jaye’s side of our bed she had about 20 photographs of us kissing all over the world. And right in the middle it was a picture of us in Kathmandu, in the Himalayas. Both wearing red robes on a chair cuddling, so it was two heads kissing. Perfect. That’s the pandrogyne. That’s Jaye and me as one being, you know? So that’s the one I took it back in the other room, put it down on about 7 feet from where we were sitting. The other people were on a semi-circle, and children were ‘so, what are you going to do? Are you going to come with us in California?’ As they said it, the picture rose up, it was faced out, it flowed to the cross 7 feet, in front of me, turned the right and gently dropped the floor, in front of me. Everybody saw it. And we looked down and we said ‘I think Jaye wants me to stay here, with her’. So physically happened, there were witnesses and it had special meaning. How fucking strong is she to do that in three days? I mean, really?
And there’s been other thing equally as specific sense. Even though there’s always been a bit of me that was an existentialist, there’s just no way. Something else is going on.
Mădălina: The symbol of the Psychic cross.
Genesis: Yes, that was me in .. about.. 1980. I draw it one day. The vertical is 3, the two longer crosses is 2, and the one in the middle is two thirds of that, so there’s always 2 and 3. But if you arrange psychic cross in a particular pattern, then, the negative space is a swastika. So the psychic cross is the opposite of swastika and its meaning it’s the positive of that negative. I didn’t even know when I designed it. 8 years later, somebody sent me this drawer of this pattern and I was like ‘oh fuck’. And then Jaye would say ‘well, of course’. She had this other same, the of course factor, ‘of course you did it that way’. Instinctively, you know?
Dragoș: Somebody said that death doesn’t exist because you can’t live it.
Genesis: Yes. Where is that line? Where’s the line between awake and asleep. Where’s the line between life and death? There isn’t one.
Dragoș: Do you think it has anything to do with believing? If you believe, it might happen, if you don’t, it won’t happen?
Genesis: We have a say, change the way to perceive and change old memories. The body can die. Jaye said the body is a cheap suitcase. But the body isn’t who you are. Consciousness is. So what matters is consciousness. So yeah, that can continue. Obviously.
When you let go the obsession that Western especially has on the human body, medicine wants to preserve the body and all this stuff about physical material reality, it’s the greatest mistake of western thinking. If you go somewhere like Africa, or India, or Nepal, or Thailand, they’re all ‘well, obviously there’s more than that!’ They don’t even have a question! It’s in the West, where we get more and more materialist and we forget the spiritual and make ourselves fucking miserable because we forgotten how important thinking is. How important emotions and experiences are. The obsession with physical things is a tragedy in the west. We would disagree with someone like the Catholic Church who says the body is not sacred. The mind is sacred. Thinking is sacred. The body is just a cheap suitcase that carries the mind, as Kaye would say. Timothy Leary used to say ‘we only have a body to move the mind so we can move our mind around.’ It’s just a machine. Material life it’s a very brutal environment. In order to experience physical life, you have to have a body. But it goes out fast, because it’s hard being here.
Dragoș: Do you think consciousness is forever?
Genesis: Yes. I do now. I think everybody finds that out, sometime. Everything is recording all the time. The planet is recording. Think about it, we could still go to New Guinea and see people living in the Stone age, or even before the Stone age. And every era of human history is still going on somewhere on the planet. You go to Dubai and is a sort of mixture of the medieval and the modern. It’s all recorded. Fossils and everything else…it’s all being recorded. When somebody has a child, it starts with two single cells, which is how they say life began. And it goes with mutation into multi cells and it becomes like a tiny fish, and it becomes an amphibian and then a reptile, and then it becomes a monkey, and then it becomes a human. And first it’s not male or female. The Tibetans have said for ages that there’s nobody in there for at least 39 days.